(00:01):
When my parents brought me to this gender therapist from the first appointment, he affirmed me as a male. He started calling me, he him, and I didn't have a name, a new name picked out at that point, so I was still going by cat, but he started calling me, he him. And by appointment number three, he had suggested testosterone.
(00:28):
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(00:58):
The courage it takes to challenge gender dysphoria is beyond most people's scope of understanding. Listen to the story of a woman who goes by cat, who started talking about this at the tender age of five, then brought it up again in her teens, and then took physical measures in her twenties
(01:18):
Before anything else. I'm an artist and a musician. I have known that I wanted to do music since I was very young. Two years old, I started singing, and I come from a musical family as well. So as a child, we performed a lot together. We did like family concerts, and I'm also a music producer, and I've produced three studio albums. But another theme throughout my life is that I have been gender and I also suffered from what I would now call gender dysphoria from the time I was around five years old. And my earliest memory of that was asking my mom if it was possible to change gender or change sex. And her not knowing much about transitioning, particularly females transitioning to male, that wasn't really a widely known thing back then. She told me it wasn't possible that she knew of some men who had transitioned to be women, but not the other way around.
(02:19):
So for a long time, I just kind of let that go. And for various reasons, I felt uncomfortable with my biological sex. I continued to feel like I was meant to be born a boy, but I just thought it wasn't possible to do anything about that. So that kind of stayed constant until about 13 years old when I was going through puberty. And that was when. So I'm a bit older. A lot of people think I look younger than I am, but I'm actually 31. So when I was 13 was the early two thousands. And at that point I had consistent internet access and I was browsing the internet and I ended up, I don't remember exactly how I found it, but I found a website specifically for females attempting to transition to male. And the way it was presented on that website is that it was possible to fully change sex from female to male.
(03:23):
And that, you know, started with functional female genitalia and ended up with basically male genitals, exactly like any other man. And so looking at that, I thought maybe that was something I would wanna do. And at that point I started identifying as trans. I came out to the first thing that I did was just kind of changing my style a little bit. I'd always been sort all over the place style, style wise. Sometimes I'd dress more masculine, but other times I did still wear dresses and stuff. But at that point, I kind of stopped wearing the dresses as much and started presenting myself in more of a boyish way. And a couple years later, I came out to my parents who took me to a gender therapist. So this is the first signs of something sort of fishy happening. And part of why I'm talking about what I'm talking about today, and that is that when my parents brought me to this gender therapist who was in Sacramento from California. So they drove me over an hour to see this person. And from the first appointment, he affirmed me as a male. He started calling me, he him. And I didn't have a name, a new name picked out at that point, so I was still going by cat. But he started calling me, he him. And by appointment number three, he had already suggested testosterone. For me to start injecting myself with testosterone
(04:46):
Cat's story is not unusual. Many people who go to gender therapists or doctors who offer gender reaffirming care, which can include social as well as physical aspects towards transitioning, end up being told right away that what they're experiencing is the full truth of who they are.
(05:08):
So at this point, I was still a minor. I was 17 years old. Looking back on it especially, it was just kind of concerning because I was also coming in with some trauma that I hadn't worked out from my childhood. And I suffered from a severe eating disorder as well. I'd been hospitalized for anorexia. I had various other mental health issues as well depression, anxiety, just honestly like a whole adhd, a whole laundry list full of issues. So even at that time, I didn't feel like I was ready to start testosterone for one thing because my parents weren't fully sold on my gender identity, especially given my history with mental illness. And I was also worried about my singing voice because I'd been a singer my whole life. And I knew testosterone would drastically change my voice. I just thought it would get deeper, though I didn't really know much about that at that point. And so for quite a few years, I kind of went back into the closet. I attempted going to college, and I was there for a few years. But my mental health issues and gender dysphoria, et cetera I developed addictions as well and just kind of had to drop out because I wasn't doing very well mentally or physically.
(06:33):
So yeah, for several years I was in the closet. I dated some people who I was afraid to come out to because I just thought they would break up with me if I told them the truth. And finally, in my late twenties, I was just desperate. I felt like I tried everything else and there was just no way for me to be happy as a woman.
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(07:22):
The narrative that that's popular with trans activism today is that medical transition is the best way to prevent suicide. And that if you have gender dysphoria, medical transition is basically the way to go. So I believe that, especially being that I was someone who had already suffered from mental health issues, I'd already been suicidal in the past and had attempted, I'd had two attempts at this point. So I was just like, Yeah, I guess I'm gonna try it. And I just was attached to this idea that it would make me much happier and just completely overhaul my mental health. And so I ended up starting testosterone. And how I got the testosterone is in California, it's actually shockingly easy to get access to these hormones. I thought there'd be some kind of mental health evaluation or some kind of required number of visits with a mental health professional, et cetera, something like that.
(08:21):
But I just called up Planned Parenthood because I'd heard that they provided these services. And I talked to a doctor from there for around 30 minutes and was prescribed over the phone just like that. And I was forthcoming about most of my mental health issues. I definitely shared about my eating disorder and depression anxiety and things like that. But the way I was presenting it is I was psychoanalyzing myself and just saying that, well, I think it's due to the gender dysphoria though. I think that's really the underlying issue. And that these other issues would go away if I started transitioning. And this doctor just kind of took me at face value with that and just wrote me the prescription. And I drove and picked it up at CVS the same day. And then for me, within just a few months initially I felt great after starting testosterone but then after just a few months, I started to have health issues which I was still not willing to give up.
(09:30):
This idea that medical transition would transformed my life. But then the thing that really just, it broke my heart and made me reexamine all of my existing beliefs on transition was when I lost my singing voice Not only did my voice just get deeper, but it became painful to speak or sing. It felt like there was a barrier in my throat when I would vocalize. And that was just, I felt like I couldn't express myself as an artist. I couldn't record, I couldn't perform. And at that point, I just realized what have I done to myself? Gender seems so trivial compared to music, I feel like is part of my purpose for being on this planet. And I didn't realize how important having my natural voice was to me until I lost it.
(10:23):
It's common to hear from the transgender community that the only answer to gender dysphoria is to take hormones. Some people believe that hormone therapy acts as a bandaid for the disorder rather than a solution. Knowing that this trend is on the rise these days with more therapists and doctors on the bandwagon, it's not surprising that we are starting to see more people transitioning like Cat has done once they've overcome some of their prior psychological diagnoses.
(11:03):
So since then, I detransition and I'm living as a woman again. Since then, I've just worked on healing my voice and healing from my gender dysphoria as well, mostly through meditation and some other practices. So yeah, that's just kind of where I'm at. And I wanna speak out about this issue because the numbers of transitioners is the number of transits is growing rapidly. And I think a lot of it has to do with just these hormones being handed out so easily in some places. And just what I consider to be a very harmful one-sided narrative about transitioning. And because the fact is that it doesn't help everyone to transition. And even people who are, they claim to be happier, and I believe them when they say that. But there are concerning health issues in basically every case when it comes to medically transitioning. And the practices are very experimental. And I think a lot of people don't know that. A lot of people think that it's been well tested, and that's part of the narrative behind medical transition is the best option, is that there's all the science behind it. And
(12:20):
How old were you when you first started feeling differently?
(12:26):
The memory that comes to mind from around that time is just being in the car, Sitting in the car and watching a dad with his two sons who were both shirtless in public at the park or something. And I remember looking at that and thinking, Wow, I really wanna be shirtless. That just looks so freeing. And just even at that age, five to seven years old, I knew that one day I would grow up to be a woman. And that made me feel really uncomfortable. I didn't wanna grow breasts, I just didn't really want any of it. And I think it had to do with some trauma I experienced related to being a girl at that age. And then just also the toxic media representation of women. And even during the nineties, the media representation of women was pretty sexist, and limiting.
(13:29):
Now, when you said that you went to that doctor and he really didn't do much mental evaluation, he talked to you over the phone, prescribed you the testosterone. In the beginning, did you feel like your mood was lifting? Did you feel like you were feeling better? What was the change that made you keep going with that? And I don't remember, did you mention how old you were around that time as well?
(13:59):
Yeah, so when I actually started medically transitioning, I was 28 years old. So I did wait quite a while for various reasons. But yeah, initially my energy levels improved. I felt like a slight euphoria. My mood was a lot more stable. And obviously your period stops almost right. My period start stopped almost right away. And so the kind of mood and emotional fluctuations that come with having your monthly cycle stopped. So yeah, I mean at first I felt great. I was getting stronger. I'd always wanted to be able to lift heavier weights, and within two months I was lifting heavier than I I've ever been able to in my life. So I felt kind of superhuman and that was great at first. But I think just for me, the health issues started happening so quickly. And some people don't have health issues for 10 years or something. They feel all right for a long time. But I think for me, given that I had already suffered from an eating disorder which does damage to your body, and I, I'd struggled with alcoholism. So both of those things, anorexia, severe anorexia and repeated alcohol abuse are hard on the liver. And of course your other organs. And so my theory is that that had something to do with why I experienced side effects so quickly.
(15:37):
But yeah, I think that if I hadn't lost my voice and started having the other side effects that I was having, I think I definitely would continued with the testosterone because there is somewhat of a euphoric anti depressive effect. But also it was, there were some negative effects emotionally too. I did feel like I was more if someone were to upset me rather than feeling sad and more internalizing it, I would be more prone to getting agitated and angry at them. So I felt a little bit more on edge. And I also, as an artist, I felt cut off for my emotions and it was hard to cry and harder to name and express emotion. And so that was kind of weird for me too. I thought that would be positive because there's such a stigma around crying and being emotional in this society, but not being able to experience that was super weird for me.
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(17:12):
I've been talking with people about this topic for a little bit. And the interesting part I think, is that a doctor told me that they have found that someone transitioning to be a man, that when they take the testosterone, that they find that they no longer have this ability to, ability to express certain emotion, which would make total sense. And it's how it is in the real world anyway between men and women for the typical most part. So I think that it's probably almost like there's a Petri dish happening right now with a lot of experimentation and there's gonna be a lot to learn with probably hormonal therapies, other types of drugs that are not so much for the psychoactive healing, but for some sort of hormonal healing that lifts the spirits, but maybe doesn't go completely in the direction of gender dysphoria having to go over to the other side. I don't know, it's just a theory that I have. Do you have any insight on anything like that? And after that, I wanna talk about the testifying that you did in California.
(18:33):
I think there's so many areas in our society that need healing and gosh, this is such a huge topic, but I mean just things like diet and lifestyle and level of stress. And I mean, definitely I think that the pandemic, we've seen a surge in mental illness and I think a lot of that has to do with isolation and our agriculture system and the food that we're putting in our bodies every day is I mean, that can send someone outta balance just by itself. I mean, talking about hormones, I mean, your biochemistry is very interconnected and it's very dependent on diet and the chemicals you're consuming from the atmosphere. And then there's emotional and spiritual health as well. And I think that just the way our world is set up and how there's so much focus on productivity at all costs, and we live in a world where you're expected not to be very emotional and showing emotion is, we always consider it to be a sign of instability or mental illness.
(19:55):
And I think that that kind of results in a lot of young women feeling sort of dysphoric just about having their emotions. But if we didn't live in a society where it was stigmatized, I feel like just the female existence would be a lot more widely accepted and people wouldn't feel so ashamed or uncomfortable with themselves. And same goes for men too, because I think at an individual or I think at a population, there are certain behaviors, and at a population level, there are certain behaviors and emotional reactions that we kind of expect from men and women. And the stereotype is that for men, anger and assertiveness, those are more expected versus for women, like tears are I guess kind of more culturally accepted. But at an individual level, there are men who are deeply emotional and do cry a lot, and there are women who hardly ever cry at all.
(21:04):
So I think that it's beautiful, however a person is I think it is the way they were born and it's how they are naturally. And there's just something beautiful about that. But I think the way our culture is set up, it can make men who are emotional in particular, it can make them feel ashamed. And I think it can make them feel like they're not really men if they don't behave in this certain way according to society. And the same goes for women. And so I think in order to really look at this problem or rather this phenomenon of gender dysphoria, widespread gender dysphoria, I just think we need to look at our entire culture and our lifestyle and what is really the root causes of all of this. Because I think if we were able to look at everything from a holistic perspective that we would be able to solve lots of other problems gender dysphoria, just being one of them, I think mental illness, physical illness all of that is very dependent on lifestyle.
(22:16):
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Now, speaking of something that feels very official and prominent and gives you a lot of credibility on this topic is you recently testified to the California Senate for some sort of legislation. Could you go into that and explain what happened?
(23:07):
Absolutely. So recently, there was a piece of legislation in California called Senate Bill 9 23. And basically what this legislation was about was that it would require all medical professionals in California, so that's doctors, it's even the receptionist at doctor's offices who still interact with patients. They would have to go to this training, which would cost mil at least millions of dollars by the way, to pull this off. But they would have to attend this training that is taught by trans activists who are not medically trained and ideologically driven. And they would essentially be training the doctors on how to respond to patients presenting with gender dysphoria regardless of the doctor's medical expertise and whether they personally believed it was in the best interest of the patient. And if a doctor in my position, for instance, if I went to a doctor and said, Well, I have suffered from an eating disorder for 15 years.
(24:23):
I have abused alcohol I have severe depression and anxiety. And the doctor said something like, Well, maybe it's not a good idea for you to start hormones right away. I would recommend that you go to psychologist or psychiatrist first. So according to this legislation, if a doctor were to say that to me and I were to complain about how I was treated by this doctor they would be required to go back to this training and repeat it as many times as they got complaints. So it's horrendously expensive and it's going against the expertise of the medical providers who again, have been through medical school.
(25:10):
So it's essentially going to make this push for affirmative care as the standard of care, which harms a lot of people cuz we're hearing from more and more transitioners that they don't feel like they're mental health issues were addressed and that their providers didn't really search for the root causes before just prescribing them hormones immediately. We're gonna see that be becoming much more widespread in California and it's going to look more similar to Canada where it's actually illegal to question someone's gender identity in a medical setting because that's considered conversion therapy. So yeah, I testified against that and shared my personal story of transitioning and how affirmative care really I feel like failed me as a person. And it wasn't particularly well received. Basically two of the senators called me, well sort of passively, called me a liar saying that it's not true that they were saying that you have to have a certain number of mental health sessions to get hormones, which is, it's just so verifiably, verifiably false. Cuz if you look at Planned Parenthood's website for one thing, they promise that you can get hormones on the first visit. So anyway, yeah, it wasn't well received, but I'm still glad that I stood up there and said something because I wanna change California and I wanna change the world in terms of how we deal with gender dysphoria. So
(26:56):
As you're going through this with the California legislature, what is it exactly that trans activists are wanting to happen?
(27:05):
What trans activists are advocating for on a large scale is that they want what's called informed consent for receiving hormones and surgeries. They want that to be the model that is used everywhere because according to their ideology they believe that if a person has gender dysphoria, the best thing to do is to immediately affirm them. And if you have dysphoria, that means you are trans, meaning you know, are a man trapped in a woman's body or vice versa. Or if you are basically part male and part female trapped in the body that you have. And so in order to align the psyche with the body, the best thing to do is to affirm as soon as possible and get started with the medical changes that this person wants. And so what they want people to be able to do is just go into a doctor's office and basically self diagnose and say, I, I have gender dysphoria.
(28:21):
And then they just want it to be as easy as signing a form and getting hormones the same day. And so this is what they are pushing for everywhere. So sometimes people will argue, well in other places like your privileged, cuz you're from California and it's easy to get them in California. But other places it's this whole process. But the thing is, if you look at what the activists are saying they are trying to get laws changed so that it will be like it is in Canada everywhere where it's illegal to even question someone's gender identity or possibly bring up deeper issues that could be behind it. So yeah, that's basically what affirmative care entails. It's just immediate affirmation and then progressing according to the parent, to the parents, the patient's wishes rather than having an honest medical evaluation or according to what the physician thinks is best. It's more the patient telling the physician what they want rather than the other way around, which is what we see in other areas of mental healthcare.
(29:30):
So what is your actual hope for what's going to happen? Are you involved with any kind of organizations that are helping? Are they wanting you to come speak or be a spokesperson, if you will for this? What's the next step from here?
(29:50):
I wouldn't say that I'm directly involved with any particular organizations at this point but I have gotten involved with, there's a movement about detransition awareness that is right now, I know it's international. And so there were demonstrations in several states. This in the United States this year as well as in the UK overseas, I'm not even entirely sure on everywhere there were demonstrations, but it is very widespread. So I did participate in a demonstration on the Trans Awareness Day March 12th. And that was kind of cool, actually meeting up with people in person. And the type of people who are involved in this activism are typically detransition such as myself, but also parents who have had young children who they suffered from gender dysphoria or expressed that they might be trans. And so the parents wanting to help their kid, they took them to a gender therapist or doctor and or pediatrician.
(31:01):
And these providers just immediately affirm them. Sometimes without even the parent's knowledge, the school will affirm them or they don't even know what's going on with their kid. And I think there's completely cause for concern when a kid's deeper issues and their past and just all the factors aren't being considered and they're just being put down this path of affirmation. Cause the thing that's dangerous about that path is obviously that they could end up on puberty blockers, which puberty blockers for gender dysphoria. There's never been clinical trials. Same thing with cross sex hormones. There isn't really quality research that it's safe or that it's effective in treating gender dysphoria. So I think just spreading awareness about detransition is the first step that's extremely important because trans activists are trying to silence. There really are I, I've had so many people online just tell me to shut up and not share my story because I'm a small minority of trans people and that by me sharing my experiences, I am harming trans people and invalidating the community. And I just think it's so important for someone who's considering transition to see both sides. Like some people apparently they seem to be happy and well adjusted after transition, but then there are a lot of people who do not benefit from transition at all. In fact, it causes a lot of harm in their life. So I just think it's so important that people hear all sides of the situation.
(32:51):
Well that makes sense. I mean, we don't really know what's going on with other people until we get into their story and into their experience and dismissing that is not okay. Just like with any kind of political issues or whatever's going on in the legislation. There's always going to be opposing sides and there's gonna be extremes and there's gonna be the more moderate in the middle. And this is just something that is, it's so extreme to a lot of people, this entire personality or dysphoria or situation or condition. It is very different and people are afraid of that. And so you've got a group that is being against it. Then you've got people who are advocating for themselves and everybody deserves some sort of say in stake in the game. They need to be able to express their opinions. So I appreciate the fact that you're doing this because it does go against the grain of this larger movement that's happening right now.
(34:03):
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(34:34):
Yeah, I just really quickly, if I could, I just wanna add that there's kind of this stigma around de transitioners that we're all just transphobic or that we don't really care about trans people or we're trying to harm the community. And I just wanna say that at least for the transitioners I know and for myself certainly that couldn't be further from the truth. I have immense compassion for people who suffer from gender dysphoria. And it's something I've struggled with myself, but just what I wanna see in the world and what mostly transitioners I think wanna see is just better options for people with gender dysphoria. And we want medical providers who actually listen to us and understand us and treat us as a whole person. And I don't think anyone needs a one size fits all generic treatment approach that's like a factory conveyor belt.
(35:38):
I don't think that's the compassionate way to approach this. So the main thing that we want is just more research into alternative treatment methods as well as following up with these people who have transitioned long term. Cuz one of the things that is lacking in this area of research is long term data in general as well as physical health effects, as well as mental health effects. So I mean, really my intention is for everybody to be happy and healthy and just receive the best care that they possibly could. And yeah, I have immense compassion and my heart goes out to other people who are suffering from gender dysphoria and I just want everybody to be happy and healthy. And that's really what I'm all about it. It doesn't have anything to do with judging anybody or attacking the trans community or anything like that at all.
(36:42):
Speaking of gender affirmation, Vanderbilt Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee has been in the news lately due to an expose by Matt Walsh. Apparently they were doing gender affirming surgeries, not just gender affirming care involving puberty blockers or long-term birth control measures. The Tennessee legislature made swift moves to make it illegal at least until adulthood. Thank you for listening today. My name is Sally Hendrick. Be sure to visit our website for show notes and more information on how you can inspire others. If you would like to contribute content to our magazine, please apply on our website at shoutyourcause.com.
