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Welcome to Shout Your Cause with Sally Hendrick, a digital magazine, where you can get found, get heard, and get inspired with content that challenges us to be globally-minded. Our focus is on raising awareness around social justice issues, cultural differences, and to bring you the people dedicating their lives to tackling challenging topics as their way of giving back. Let us be your advocate to make your voices heard around the world.
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Hey everybody, it's Sally Hendrick with Shout Your Cause. Thank you for listening again, to another episode today, we're going to be talking about money and I've got a TikToker here. Her nickname over on TikTok is @moneyisstupid, which really caught my eye by the way. Yeah. And this is M, and welcome.
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Thank you so much for having me, Sally. I'm really like excited to be here and talk about all this important stuff because yes, I, I really do believe money is stupid.
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No, you know, money is necessary, but money can be stupid as well. And I think that because you're, that came up and some of the concepts that you were talking about and demonstrating on your account, uh, were really out of the box from what I, um, have known. I am so interested in learning more, but before we go into, you know, your topics, tell me a little bit more about yourself and what it is you're doing.
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Absolutely. So yeah, in terms of the handle, what I find funny about money as stupid is no matter, like where are you are on the political spectrum or what your situation is? I have found that most people agree with, like just that statement in isolation. So I do feel like there is a unifying, um, thing there that I think that all of us know on some level that like the current financial system, like isn't the way that we want it to be, or maybe it's not best serving us. Um, I grew up in a very wealthy family and a wealthy neighborhood, um, and coming from that and then like entering the quote unquote real world. I remember one of my first TikToks I ever made. I was talking about how I felt like I grew up in a simulation because it was like that like idealic, like super homogenous suburb of the nineties.
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And like, as I started to move farther away from that, whether it was going to college after that, like working, um, in education in various ways, like I taught adult English to new immigrants, I did that for awhile. I taught theater to kids. Then I taught elementary school ESL like English as a new language, um, for four years in the New York city public school system. And now I work for a nonprofit and I help adults with disabilities and throughout like all of those jobs and, and which is all of my life experiences, I'm always kind of like reflecting and comparing back to like how I grew up. And particularly when I worked in the New York city public school system and like title one schools, like quote unquote high need, low income, you know, underfunded schools and like reflecting on the schooling that I had as a kid, like just seeing the juxtaposition and that really stark contrast.
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And it really like hit home the wealth inequality that we experienced. And then I think when the pandemic hit, it just really accelerated all of that for me. And it made me really want to refine my political beliefs. And when I tell you, I have read more books in the past year and a half than I have read in the past 10 years, I'm just like highly motivated to learn about what's going on, why it's happening and what like solutions have already been envisioned that are out there. And I'm very interested in learning about the solutions. So all of that learning, I kind of process on tick-tock and it's been really great to like, it helps me process and like, I love reading people's comments and, you know, meeting people and having conversations because it's really like, it's been like a classroom for me.
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I love it because I feel the same way when I got on TikTok last year, it was kind of a spy on my youngest a little bit just to see what's going on over there. My youngest is into cosplay and anime and things like that. And makes a lot of really cool creative videos. And so I was just doing that, but then next thing you know, I start getting sucked into it and I'm like, oh, wait a second. I'm actually learning some things about different parts of the country that I didn't really understand the perspective of. And I thought, you know, this could be really great research for me at first I thought for my marketing company, but then when it came to the COVID stats, I used to be an actuary. I was an actuary for
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Cool. That's a career I'm very interested in actually. So in fascinating to me,
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It is fascinating. And the knowing how to do the statistical analysis and to bring in the economic factors and the behavioral factors of people, and then the financial concerns of corporations putting all that together, you really do learn a lot about goes on in the world from that corporate standpoint. Right. But then you look at what's happening to people on the ground and it's like, what are we doing here? It's, it's almost like corporations are, have moved into this status of we, we control everything and we have this machine going and you, the happy worker are here working for us. And even though it's not a communist government situation going on, it's almost like that's how it is with the corporations and employees with this huge cog wheel of, I don't know, economy running through and they control everything.
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Yeah. I mean, I definitely agree with, they control everything the way I see it is like, I think the corporations and it's not just me that thinks this. I think that corporations are more powerful than countries at this point. A lot of them are like, just in terms of just net worth and like economic reach. They're more powerful than any country at this point. You know, when we talk about corporations like black rock or Amazon, you know, they're massive and their reach is, is really profound and it's not just geographical it's, you know, also we've kind of shifted from geographical control to digital control, right. You know, Amazon, um, Amazon's internet service controls most of the internet. So like, even if you're on a website, you know, that has nothing to do with Amazon. You're most likely on a website that's hosted by Amazon and they've like courted the U S government about hosting some of their platforms through Amazon web services. So it's like the reach of corporations is, is really profound. And I think that, um, you know, I know you said the word communism. I think the way I interpret communism is like, I think that communism predicted this, like, certainly like from a Marxist perspective,
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What Marxist is more along the lines with socialism. A lot of people like to put it all in the same bucket, but there is a difference.
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Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking from a Marxist perspective. Like, you know, I think I, and I'm not an expert on Marxism by any means, but, um, you know, the, the whole, the whole premise that like a small group of people control everything and right. You know, that's, that was predicted years ago that it would keep getting worse and worse and we keep the keep proving that to be true. And, and it doesn't seem to, it seems like there's no stopping it.
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Like what you described in growing up was like this Stepford life where everything's the same. I don't know if you remember that movie back in the days or the TV show Stepford Wives, but it was, um, it was like everybody was programmed to be the same. They all had the same houses. They all had the same look, the same clothing, the same hairstyle, you know, everything was the same, the, the juxtaposition of the man versus the wife and the home and the children was all the same. And everybody was saying anything, any different. It was like, what is that? You know, little boxes,
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Little boxes made of ticky-tacky. Yeah. I, I've never, I've never seen the show, but I, but I know, I know the main idea and yeah. I mean, I've definitely grew up in the suburbs for sure. I mean, you know, I also grew up in like the suburbs that were like right outside of New York City. So it's like, you know, just the money there is like out of control.
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Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. So when it comes to universal basic income, I've noticed some of your TikToks will talk about that. Can you explain what that is? Yes.
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I've always like, how do I condense it? I think, um, so I want to start by saying like a few years ago, I didn't know anything about universal basic income. I had never even like heard those words and I've just learned a ton about it because it is the financial solution that makes the most sense to me of anything I've ever heard proposed. When I heard this, I was like, this makes sense. Just something about it, like clicked, um, in my logistics brain. So I like had to follow that. And I first learned about it. I read the book, um, jobs by David Graber. David Graber is an anthropologist. He self identified as an anarchist. Um, and he has unfortunately passed away. But at the end of his book, he talks about universal basic income. And that's what kind of inspired me to start learning about it.
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Uh, universal basic income is a system in which everybody usually it has to be within the constraints of, you know, a country it's like everybody in the country would get a certain amount of money on a regular basis. No questions asked forever. So, you know, it could be like, everyone is just hypothetical. Everyone in the United States gets $2,000 a month, no matter who you are. There's no means testing means testing would be like, you have to apply to qualify, or you have to be in some sort of group to qualify. If it's a universal program, it means everybody gets that money no matter what. And you know, that, that brings up a lot of questions for people. There's a lot of people that it does. It's so radically different from what we experienced right now that it's like, it's hard, it's jarring to hear that. And it's like, it takes a lot of like processing to be like, and you're like, wait, but what about, what about, what about, you know, and I've been trying to like learn the answers to those questions and help answer people's questions in the best way that I can. I mean, I'm wondering what you're thinking right now. Like what are your initial questions when you hear that?
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So if everybody has $2,000, then, I mean, I'm assuming that is listed to cover basic expenses so that nobody starves nobody, you know, everybody has food and shelter. Um, but when it comes to beyond that, does it change? Are there requirements for it? Or, you know, what are some of the stipulations that go with it? Um, is this only for certain communities or, you know, like people with disabilities or is this, you know, what are the stipulations around it? Cause I know a lot of people have questions about that. Yeah.
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So the vision for like a truly progressive universal basic income is that there are no stipulations. So everybody gets it. As long as you are in the country, you get it. Like there's, there's no stipulations and no strings. And that's why it becomes a very powerful way to like fundamentally change the financial system. Um, it can't, if it were implemented, it couldn't be implemented in a vacuum. It would have to be implemented alongside housing reform, things like rent control or like a percentage housing system. So that, because otherwise, you know, you would think, well, if everybody's just getting more money than landlords will just raise rent or, you know, mortgage payments, and then, you know, so you have to prevent that, that from happening, right. We need housing reform anyway. So I see this as like part of something that all goes together. I also think it should go hand in hand with universal health care.
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And you know, if you have universal healthcare and you get a monthly stipend and you know, you have affordable housing that pretty much covers it, right? Um, the way that you pay for this, which is usually something people think about as well, is by offsetting the costs with taxation. So what's the other big thing we need to do right now, tax the wealthy, right? We need to tax wealthy corporations, especially these massive global monopolies that are just flush with cash. Like, like I said before, some of them have more money than entire, like we need to appropriately tax them. We need to appropriately tax wealthy individuals as well. But frankly, they're kind of at the bottom of the list for where this money could come from. We can redirect money from entities that are overfunded like the military or the, um, criminal justice system. A lot of money can be either redirected or collected through taxation.
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The other thing is like the government can, the government can pay for things when it wants to as well. You know, they control the federal government controls the treasuries. Like if they want to fund something, they can figure out a way to do it. We already have universal programs in this country. We have, um, Medicaid, you know, like that's a universal program. When when you get old, you're guaranteed to have that. Right. And everybody has it. There's no stipulations for that. Right. Um, it's just a certain age, but everyone is guaranteed that once they hit that age. Right. So, um, you know, public schools are a universal program. Um, so like it's very possible for the government to like fund a universal program. Um, I think the biggest positive effects that the universal basic income can have is that yes. Like, like you said before, it prevents people from falling into poverty.
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Right. And that's like the main, the main motivation. Right? Right. No one would necessarily be unhoused. No one would necessarily, you know, have to live in poverty, but it also can have these other really interesting effects, which have been proven in some of the basic income trials that have been done, which I'll, which I can talk about more too, that things, things that you might not necessarily think of right away. Things like, imagine if a woman is in an abusive marriage and they're staying in that marriage because they know if they leave, like they won't have a job or like, they won't be able to enter the workforce or they won't be able to take care of themselves. Right. Like something like a universal, basic income can allow someone in like an abusive relationship to leave. It can allow someone with disabilities to like, get stability. It can allow, it can allow, it has all these other like, affects of like that. We don't even think about that. Just, you know, money determines so many things in our lives. And it would, if we weren't worried about it in terms of survival, it would really free up, um, people in a lot of ways. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of an overview, hopefully that hopefully that helps give people a place to start thinking about the idea. So
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As far as like the trials that you were talking about is, is that the only examples of this actually happening, or are there countries doing this now?
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So this has never been done. And that's an important thing to know about it. Like a universal, basic income. Like the one that I'm describing has never been done. And that's part of why I think it's exciting because we have no idea how powerful the effects of there could be. Um, there have been like what I consider, like kind of like micro versions of this, that don't have all the elements. So like, for example, in Spain, right now, they have the Ingresso Vital, which is basically, if you don't make enough, if you don't, uh, if you have a low enough income it's means tested. So if you have a low enough income or you don't have a job, you get this Ingresso Vital. So it's basically like a really robust unemployment system. Um, and I think that's great, but you know, it's, it is means tested.
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So like, you have to make less than a certain amount of money and you have to apply for it. Um, but you know, that has been a very powerful force in Spain. Um, in the U S there have been a lot of pilots. One of the most like famous ones came out of Stockton, California, the mayor there, Michael Tubbs, he piloted this basic income program in Stockton and collected data and all this like incredible data started coming out that basic income helped people to get full-time jobs at a higher rate. Um, people used the money to help their families, to like, like, you know, there's, there's a lot of like myths and misconceptions that like, you know, come from a history of racism in classes. And that, like, if you give people money, they're just going to spend it on like stupid stuff. And it turns out that they don't, they like spend it on what they need, or maybe they do spend it on some stupid stuff.
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And like, that's okay. Like overall, like, you know, people were spending money in ways that they needed it. They, they, like I said, they got, they got themselves out of debt to help their family. They were able to take time off from their current jobs. So they could look for like a better job. It was like, you know, all these positive things that came out of it. And Michael Tubbs then, uh, founded this group called the mayors for guaranteed income. And they're an incredible group. I would recommend anyone listening who wants to learn more to check out their website. It's a group of mayors all around the country. There might be a mayor near you as part of this group. And they're all dedicated to either piloting or implementing a guaranteed income program in their city. Um, and like I talked about on my TikTok, like California recently announced a program where they're going to be giving a guaranteed income to anyone who has aged out of the foster care system and anyone who is a parent.
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So I think all of these are great. I just think, you know, they're still, they're still usually means tested. So like, there's still, like, you have to be a certain, um, income level or in a certain, uh, demographic group to qualify for, for the payments. And part of the reason I don't like that is because it draws lines around people, it can lead to stigma. Um, and it's also like logistically difficult to manage. Um, so, and, and yeah, those programs are often easier to get rid of too, like programs that help people who are living in poverty, as opposed to like, you know, like it's really hard to get rid of, um, social security. It's really hard to get rid of Medicare because those are really strong, like universal programs that everybody gets. And imagine, imagine if a president like got rid of one of those, like people would flip. Right. You know, so it's like, if you give the income to everyone, it's also just like a more durable program. So yeah, that's, I think the, the pilots are awesome because they're providing a ton of data for us. Um, and you know, in a few years, we'll have a lot of data in the U S of how these things are working. I mean, there's been data on other places. Canada has done experiments. India has done experiments, but, you know, I think it's useful to see data right here in the U S
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So I'm really curious about some of the other things that I've seen on your TikTok as well. And one of them was this insulin program where somebody was, they were like, we're just going to make it ourselves. What is that about?
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So it's the open insulin project I just learned about this recently. Um, they are a nonprofit and they're a group of people that basically they call themselves biohackers because basically what they're doing is like, they're not a formal lab. They're not like a pharma company. They're just a small group of people. And they're trying to figure out how to make insulin so that they can give it to people I think for free either for free or very low cost. Um, that's their goal and some of the founders have diabetes. So, you know, I think they're looking at a failing system that like, doesn't provide people with affordable access to this like vital life saving drug. And they're like, we're going to see if we can just, you know, do it on our own. They're there in Silicon valley, you know? So they have like some Silicon valley money being, you know, funded into it. But, um, even if they succeed, like they'll only be able to make so much because they're very small group, but I think what they're doing is cool. And it like, you know, if that's a really serious problem that obviously needs to be addressed and I really I'm rooting for them. Yeah.
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That would be great. I mean, I could see them easily, you know, launching some sort of pilot program, but I guess there are going to be certain regulations that they have to pass. Cause I mean, you can't just hand out drugs without some sort of oversight, I guess, tone on. And, but then once they figure that out, it's not like they don't have the formula to have this pop up everywhere.
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That's, that's the thing I'm like, if somebody can like post the formula somewhere and make it available, like it reminds me of, I don't know if you ever saw the movie Dallas Buyers Club. It was like all about, um, aids drugs that like were illegal in the U S for a long time, but they weren't illegal in Mexico. So, um, Matthew McConaughey, his character like goes to Mexico and imports the drug into the U S um, I believe I'm summarizing that correctly, but the point is like, you know, there's like, it's kind of like guerrilla medicine, you know, like if I had diabetes and I couldn't afford insulin, like I would be willing to like risk, you know, FDA approval to like take something if it was going to like, save me, you know? So I'm, I'm all for people like taking matters into their own hands, especially when it's a matter of life and death.
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Yeah. Well, and aren't, we all, I mean, some people have complaints about things like that, but, um, but when you're, when they're in that situation, you can't really tell what someone's going to do unless they're faced with it. Right, right,
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Right. Exactly. So
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Without getting too deep into the healthcare side of things, cause we could talk about that for over three episodes or, and even more that matter, um, I wanted to go back into the money part of it and talk a little bit about the public banking system and what that is. I know there's a lot of effort and research and talk around that. I've seen several of the videos that you've posted on TikTok around it. Who are the people involved in this and, and what are they talking about?
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So it's actually pretty cool moment for public banking because they just had a hearing, um, in Congress to like talk about public banking and they brought in like a panel of, and they all testified. Um, and I posted some clips from that on my TikTok. Um, but like, that's very exciting because it's like at the federal level, will it go anywhere? I don't know, but the fact that they were talking about it and that they even like brought this up at the federal level is I think is really cool. Um, so public banking is like a really old idea. Um, public banking used to exist in this country in a more robust way. Um, there used to be, um, a more robust like statewide public bank system. So a lot of states had their own public banks. Um, there have been public bank systems around the world.
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A lot of countries have postal bank services where you can do your banking through the post office, which I think makes a lot of sense. Um, the real difference between a public bank and what we would think of as like a commercial bank or corporate bank, like a bank of America or a chase, um, is that like a bank of America or a chase is very profit motivated. They're basically like an investment bank plus a regular bank years ago. There was this, um, rule called Glass-Steagall, which I think I'm going to make a video about soon. There was, uh, it was law in the U S um, called like the glass Steagall policy or whatever that said that like commercial banks, couldn't also be investment banks. You had to separate those two things because like an investment bank is a bank that's trying to make money in the stock market.
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They're trying to invest and they're trying to make lots of money. Right? That's their goal. A commercial bank in theory is supposed to serve the people who have their money in the bank. Right. It's supposed to keep it safe, help it grow, give people loans, whatever. So if you allow a bank to also be an investment bank, then it uses people's money to invest. Right. And, and their goal again, is to make as much money as they can on the stock market. Commercial banks also hold money for cities, which I think is wild. Like, like New York city or LA or whatever, like all those, all the major cities in the U S that's like municipal money municipalities. They have their money in commercial banks. And those banks are also investment banks. So basically like a bank of America will take New York city's money. It will take like regular old people's money and it will invest it in the stock market to make as much money as possible.
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And when you're investing in the stock market to make as much money as possible, you're going to invest in terrible things like fossil fuel industry and the prison industrial complex, whatever it might be, you know? Um, so yeah, so that glass Steagall policy I was talking about was overturned during like the Clinton administration. I think. So that meant that like commercial banks were just investment banks now. And we don't really have banks anymore that are just meant to serve the people who have their money in them. And public banks are just that because public banks are run through the state or through a city and they don't have the same profit motive. So there, and you can have like a board that's made of like local community members, you know, like you could be on, on your city's board for the bank, you know, to help make decisions and stuff.
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You know, I, I have, if you have your money in chase, right, you can't just walk into chase headquarters and say, you know, I think you shouldn't have overdraft fees anymore, you know, but like, if you were a member of your local city bank board, you know, you could help make decisions like that. And I'm guessing that you would say we shouldn't have overdraft cause you know, and you're more likely to have your voice heard because it's a smaller public thing. So there's not all these shareholders that are gonna benefit from what you're doing. You know what I mean,
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So on the flip side of this, because this is where you're going to get the pushback. Right? You've got corporations, you've got, uh, people who are heavily invested in the stock market. You've got people that currently money is power, right? Money is where money makes the decisions for us. So on the flip side, you've got people who are heavily invested in the current system. So if there were more socialized, more publicized systems rolled out such as public banking or, um, you know, the universal, basic healthcare or other things, what people will lose money, people are going to lose money. And those people have really loud mouthpieces. They, they line the pockets of the politicians and they line the pockets of the media companies. So it's a beast to fight. Um, so how do you appease everyone in this in some way? I mean, for me personally, when I have extra, I give it away when I have extra, I'll take a nice trip, but then I'll give, you know, a piece away as well. And so, you know, there's always that mentality of like, how do you strike a balance between this system versus totally public or totally like an oligarchy.
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Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's, that's the question, right. Um, I think that, first of all, I think it's really important for me to think about, like, I don't disparage anyone for participating in the current system. We all are right. I get my packages from Amazon. You know, I, I participate in the philanthropy system like you do, you know, I like, we were all participating in the current system because that's the current system that's available to us. And we have to, you know, do do our best to survive and thrive in the current system. So I don't disparage anyone for participating in the current system to an extent, to an extent. Um, so I think that's one way to like appeal to everyone because I sincerely believe that I'm like, I think that people, people respond to the system that exists. So I don't disparage people for participating in the system.
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The other thing I think about is like, yes, a lot of people would lose money with all of these policies and that's why they're against them. But like who's losing the money. Like the people that should be losing the money because this money needs to be redistributed in some way. And all of these things are ways to redistribute the money. I think the emotional appeal needs to be. And I don't know that this will necessarily work, but clearly it hasn't in like hundreds of years, but the emotional appeal, if there is one to be made, is that everyone sees themselves as living in their own like financial individual story. Like you think of your finances as your own story, right? Like, you know, you're working hard and you're making money or you're doing whatever you think of that as your own individual financial story. And a little vacuum when in reality, like everyone's finances are interconnected.
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And when people have a lot, that means that other people don't have a lot. And like all these systems affect each other. So like, you know, a pharma company making millions of dollars off of XYZ means that there are other people in the country, in the world that are suffering. Um, so it's like, I think helping people to see the connection that these things aren't in isolation, but I think you're right. I don't think that an emotional feel will work on a lot of people, especially like the ultra wealthy, because this is their life and this is their identity and they've played the game and they've played it well, and they've won, right? So like, they're not, they're not going to be willing to give that up. And that's why I think the federal government, I'm not trying to win over those people. I'm trying to win over the federal government because the federal government is the only entity that's powerful enough to make these changes.
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And I know that the corporations are like controlling most of the federal government. And that's the part I think we need to deal with. But the reason I don't give up on the government is because like the government is the only entity that's powerful enough financially and logistically to like stand up to corporations. Like there are lots of other ways we can stand up to corporations like strong unions, but there's nothing that has the same power as, especially like the United States government. Like if, if the United States wanted to do any of these things, they could, and you can't say that about every country, the United States is incredibly wealthy and powerful as it, all they need to do is decide to flip some of these switches and it could happen. And it's not unprecedented because there have been times in the past where presidents have made decisions to really bolster social services in this country.
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And we also see, there are lots of countries out there that have really strong social systems. Um, you know, it's really hard to look at a country like Norway, which I think is similar to the U S in a lot of ways, because it's extremely wealthy. Um, and they have like really robust or a robust welfare state of a really strong social services for the people in the country. So this is not like an impossible thing. And, you know, but yeah, that's the question. I don't know how we make this happen, but I, I think that like learning about the solutions and seeing like how possible and powerful they are is like what I'm focusing on right now.
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Well, I like the fact that you're focusing on it and focusing forward with it because a lot of times you'll talk to people that are, maybe they are highly educated and they are in corporations and they are in management and above like directorships and so forth. And they're making really good money and they tend to look at it as you're going to take my money away and give it to someone who's only making this much money per month. And what have you. And it's like, wait a second. That's not really the appeal here. The appeal here is not to take it away from you as this person who's worked really hard and created, you know, maybe they're really intelligent and they feel like they should make more money because they're actually doing things to create efficiencies and make changes in the world that are positive.
(37:41):
And so they think that they deserve more in that realm, but I have a hard time appealing to people that think that other people would be taking away from them. But I think that when, when everybody has, when everybody's basic needs are met and I mean, basic needs, you're not talking about $10,000 a month income for people we're talking about a little bit, right. And these programs that help erase a lot of the poverty and the destitution that we have. I think people in that realm just really do not even understand that this world exists for some more people than they actually realize, which brings us right back to the very beginning of our discussion. When you talked about this is where I grew up and I was in this little bubble here. Yes,
(38:35):
Yes, yes. I am the same
(38:38):
way. I grew up in a wealthier home in the, in the deep south.
(38:45):
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(39:12):
I didn't really understand what it meant. This is something that, that really stuck out to me. I helped someone one time. I said, look, I'm going to come and help you. It was with a fitness and a, uh, a nutrition program. And I said, I'm going to come and help you. I'm going to take you to the grocery store and we're going to choose different things. And then we're going to go to your house and we're going to cook, and we're going to make these things for the week. And I'm going to teach you, you know, how to come into some sort of healthier eating program. Right. And I just wanted to sit down and cry because I got to the house and found out that the stove didn't work and the refrigerator was fine, but there was a tiny little microwave that barely worked and she didn't own any pots and pans. And all of a sudden I realized, oh, you've got these flimsy paper plates in here and a stack of ramen and cans of whatever. And that was it. Right? And then all of a sudden I realized, wow, I have been so blind. Right. to the real situation. Right. And then I turn around and there's a washing board.
(40:37):
Right. And those are, those are the moments that you kind of have to have. Like, you can hear all the statistics from far away, but you kind of have to have a personal, meaningful experience for it to really like for you to really process it. Um, you know, and like in those situations too, like the only way that we can respond in our current system is through the philanthropy model. Right? Like the only way we can respond is by being charitable, like individual people, like choosing to help individual people. When I think that that should be the responsibility of the government, the government should be ensuring that everyone is okay. Um, I think in terms of like speaking to the people who are afraid of having their money taken away from them, the things that I would say to them, it's like, first of all, that's why I think that, that's what I think is part of the appeal of universal programs.
(41:26):
Because universal programs, everybody gets it. Like if you're like, oh, you're, you're mad that someone who is living in poverty is getting $2,000 a month for universal basic income. Well, guess what? You're going to get it too. Are you still mad? You know what I mean? Like, are you, oh, you're mad that like we have universal health care now. And like, you know, uh, another state far away from you is going to have like really great accessible doctors and programs all the time. You're going to have a, to, you know, it's like, it's like everybody gets it. It's not just like taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor it's, it's redistributing the money for everybody. So I think that's part of it. And also I would say to that person, you know, people always like, oh, they're taking my money away. Well, it's like, are you okay with philanthropy? Because those people usually are, right. Those big corporations are very wealthy. People usually donate lots of money annually to various causes. And it's like, how is this different? Your money's just being redirected in a more efficient and effective way. Then you cherry picking what you want to donate. And that's,
(42:32):
That's something I also have a problem with is the cherry picking. I was having a conversation with a mother who, um, this was back when COVID was starting last fall before school was about to open again. And, um, and I had brought attention to something that was going on with a, um, with a school system that basically a lot of people had moved away from. It was like, uh, I could go into it forever, but I won't. But it was like this white flight situation all over again, but from one small town to another in the south. And it was a situation where this school school system in this area was just completely left behind by people who were making money. And the disparity between the two communities was like median income of 30,000 in the town left behind and median income of 65,000 in the town, five minutes away.
(43:35):
And there was a whole different school system and everything. And it was just really difficult. And I was like, you know, if anybody wants to give any money towards this, we're trying to raise awareness and blah, blah, blah. And somebody was like, oh, we already give to the school. And I'm like, yeah, you probably give to your grad school or the people, the poorest people in that school. But I don't think you understand the situation five minutes down the road where the lunch program was 98% of the kids were on the free lunch program. And you only had 15% at the other school. I'm like, I don't think you get it at all.
(44:17):
Right. And why, and why should they get it? And why should you have to explain it to them? It just be that all the schools get equity.
(44:27):
Yeah. And they don't because a lot of that's funded by property, right.
(44:34):
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(45:00):
Well, before we go, the last thing I always like to end every talk with is what is your hope for the future now that we are in the middle of this major shift, that's happening around the country, around the world, COVID has kind of created.
