This interview took place on April 24, 2020.
After renovating part of her home as an Airbnb rental, Kimberly was thrilled that March and April were fully booked for with guests who were ready for the downtown Nashville museums and music. When COVID-19 hit the scene, her plans were squashed, all bookings canceled, and Nashville's honky-tonk scene became a ghost town. Kimberly's husband has his own business venture as a DJ for weddings and corporate events, another business that is not recession-proof. She put on her advocacy hat and created the #freetn movement for Tennesseans ready to go back to work. This is her story.
Sally Hendrick (00:39):
Hey Kimberly, how are you doing? I'm Sally Hendrick. Hi Sally. I'm doing good. Thanks. How are you? Good. Good to meet you. Finally, I reached out to you yesterday, just yesterday to talk to you about what's going on in your world. You have stepped up in the forefront of some of the social media noise out there and that's how I found you. Thank you so much for agreeing to talk with me today.
Kimberly Edwards (01:08):
Hi. Yeah, thanks for reaching out. I appreciate that. And it is a lot of noise so it's nice to have an outlet that's more clear.
Sally Hendrick (01:15):
I need to be able to sit down and talk through some of these things because we are talking about very difficult topics these days. Obviously this is the whole COVID-19 situation. My podcast is called COVID-19. The world responds and that is what I'm trying to do is dig into all the different perspectives and bring forth the ideas and the stories so that we can actually have real conversations. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. So tell me a little bit about you just on the personal side and like, you know, what, what do you do and what's your situation?
Kimberly Edwards (01:54):
Yeah, so I'm a mom. I've got three boys who are aged five, three and one. They're super cute and I love them. And they're all born here in Nashville. My husband and I have been here for about six years. We moved from Chicago and we just, we just love Nashville. We loved the entrepreneurial spirit of the city. I love the friendliness of the people. And we're both Christians and we lived you know, just the ability to have so many options for church. And so many people who would just pray with us on the street and just a very loving community. And we are both entrepreneurs. So we've dabbled in different things. I used to be a photographer, I had a background in marketing. But that was a little hard to do with the kids. So something that we started this year that was supposed to help, you know, give me a little bit more time with my, with the kids cause I want to homeschool them.
Kimberly Edwards (02:50):
We turned our home, half of it into an Airbnb. I'm just like, did this crazy renovation all ourselves total do it yourself project. And my husband for the most part, his income, he does events and weddings. He's a DJ. So he'll mostly, it's weddings and then sometimes he'll do like restaurants and bars and stuff. And so that, that was kind of where we were, you know, expecting most of our income to come from. And then when COVID-19 happened, it just kind of stopped everything. All of my husband's weddings got canceled, all of the restaurants obviously closed. And all of our guests from Airbnb canceled and Airbnb gave all of the guests a carte blanche to cancel without any penalties. So like 100% of the dollars that we were expecting to get. We didn't get any of that and it just kind of vanished overnight.
Kimberly Edwards (03:48):
And, and I would say, thankfully, you know, I will recognize, like I'm, we're both very privileged in, in the opportunities we've been given. We're privileged to have a house and we're privileged to have, have loved ones who had extra money to help us out through this. My parents were able to give us money to provide for our food between then and now. But as we've seen, as we've seen the extension and as we've seen kind of what the long term social distancing mandates will do to the tourism here, the restaurant industry here, the weddings, like the inability to have any kind of social gatherings that actually takes away everything that you know, that we would be doing to make money for our family. And if we can't, if we can't keep going forward and doing that, then how are we gonna keep the roof over our head and how are we going to provide for our kids?
Kimberly Edwards (04:43):
It's kind of been the question that we've had to be asking for the past couple of weeks. So so the movement is called.
Sally Hendrick (04:55):
Yeah, going into that. So you started this movement and what is it called? It's the hashtag or.
Kimberly Edwards (05:02):
Hashtag free TN. And it's the free Tennessee movement. And basically what happened is governor Lee announced the extension to the shutdown. Some friends of mine who agreed with me that this was, this was an overreach. This was too much. It was one thing to ask for it for a couple of weeks, but to extend it. And then there's a very specific phrase he used and he continues to use this and it's, it's, for me it's just a huge overreach. It's that social distancing will be the new way of life for Tennesseeans until there was a vaccine and that that will likely be about 18 months.
Kimberly Edwards (05:41):
It could be a year to 18 months before that happens. And that, that, that, I mean it crushes me in my family personally, indirectly. I know so many people that it does the same for. But also when you look at, you know, our constitutional rights and the implication of, of that we should be allowed to choose what kind of solutions we want. We should be allowed to choose what kind of risks we want to take with our own bodies. We have that, you know, we have those freedoms that are protected in the constitution and this 18 months of of mandates is definitely stepping on those constitutional rights. And so the free TN movement is a movement to be truly free from those mandates. We do believe that, you know, it's important for there to be guidelines. We don't want anybody to be, you know, harmed or suffering, whether it's from a virus or from an economic crisis. And we believe there needs to be a solution that, you know, doesn't force other people to suffer for the sake of other people. You know what I mean? Like there needs to be a more balanced kind of solution.
Sally Hendrick (06:50):
Now have you looked at what the actual gate and phase one, two, and three roll outs are that have come from the white house task force and what that's been communicated to the governors?
Kimberly Edwards (07:04):
Yeah, so I was, I was able to listen to the press conference when Deborah Birx kind of announced what the phase, when they had like a three phase program. And then I've been reading through in the last night Tennessee as a state, their four-phase program and then my city mayor, his four-phase program and County.
Sally Hendrick (07:29):
Right. Same as me. Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberly Edwards (07:33):
And I mean I have a lot of questions about it. Like, you know, screening employees when they come in and taking their temperature and checking for the respiratory symptoms and wondering is that a HIPAA violation? And you know, for customers to have to go through a similar screening process, just wondering like, yeah, and these seem, they seem like a big overreach still. And then also thinking through things like restaurants.
Kimberly Edwards (08:00):
If they are only allowed to have half their customer base and yet they have to do at least twice the amount of work in order for them to adhere to these strict guidelines and restrictions, then how are they going to continue to stay in business? And what happens to those employees we've already lost, you know, how however many thousands. Yeah. Like to unemployment. So then how much harder is it going to continue to be under those? And then the fact that there's no, there's not like a date to end it. It's they're saying we need to have fewer cases and and that, that has to be the case for 14 days before they'll move into the next phase. And then if that doesn't happen, they can move back into the other. So it's like we really don't have any idea when they say we're reopening Tennessee. It is, it is. It really, it doesn't feel like it. Yeah. I mean, from what I understand
Sally Hendrick (08:56):
And just from the scientific perspective, it's kind of like, and I hate to make this analogy, but think about like if you're watching mice go through from a gate to a phase to another phase, to another phase, and then the way that they go in and out of the scientific experiment is if certain thresholds are crossed here, then you have to go back to here until you figure out when it's safe again to go into this next phase. So I, that's kind of like how it goes. Unfortunately. It is a thing where, and I, and I remember the mayor saying this Mayor Cooper for his four phases, that's based on data, not on dates, right? So that is how they're pushing it out, rolling it out, et cetera. Do you have fears? Have you thought about maybe, you know, what is your perspective on what if we do go back to quickly and then we're in a worst situation that's lasting longer because
Sally Hendrick (10:10):
We didn't do this carefully enough. Yeah.
Kimberly Edwards (10:14):
That, and I think it's important to look at some of the other States and how they've, how they've done things as well. I, there, there are other States who haven't had shutdowns and if you look at the there are, you know, smart people who've done mathematical calculations to take their population, their density, the number of cases and the percentage of deaths and the ones that did not shut down seem to be fairing either exactly the same or better than the ones who did shut down. So I think it's important to take that into consideration. I also think like when it comes to, I'm sorry, I just lost my train of thought.
Sally Hendrick (10:53):
No, it's fine. I did a deep subject subject and it's an emotional subject.
Kimberly Edwards (11:01):
So yeah, I'm going to catch my train of thought again, thinking through, okay.
Sally Hendrick (11:08):
All of the things that they could be looking at it, you know, they could be looking at the data, but they can still be looking at, you know, the rural density of things that could be looking at. I don't know. I don't know what else. I, I'm not really sure. I think the, we're in such a chaotic time trying to figure it out while we're in the middle of it. Right. Which is kind of like trying to get out of a car wreck when you're in the middle of it. You know what I mean? Like it's really, that's a really hairy sticky time.
Kimberly Edwards (11:42):
Well, and I think, so for me, and this is, I finally caught my train of thought for me, when I look at the, when I look at the big picture,
Kimberly Edwards (11:51):
Is it possible that there will be an uptick in cases afterwards? Yeah, it's totally possible. But, and this, and this is just a personal conviction of mine, and this is in the stands with how I feel about the constitution. I am more afraid of losing Liberty than I am of a virus in the big picture. You know, I, and when you look at what our country was founded on in the freedoms, people went to war just to protect our way of life. And we're being told that we are forced to give up our way of life out of fear of a virus. And is it possible that the virus would come back up? Absolutely. But I also believe that I am personally responsible for my own wellbeing. I believe I'm personally responsible for my family's wellbeing and that that's not your, you know, like you're not responsible for me.
Kimberly Edwards (12:43):
And I have to be able to make the choices as to what risks I'm willing to take with myself and with my family. And instead what's happening is we're being told which risks we are and are not allowed to take. And to the point that a lot of people are being forced to suffer. I saw in Cookeville a family who because of COVID had lost their job and actually were evicted and they're homeless right now and they were living out of their car for several days. And I just thought how ironic that they're being told to stay home, but by staying home, they don't have a home anymore to stay in. That literally the solution has become worse than the problem and makes it worse. So it's like, it's this balance. You have to find something that is somewhere in the middle. It cannot just be this all or nothing. Extreme.
Sally Hendrick (13:37):
Right. So I think to that part of the problem with helping families that are struggling with the current situation is that the SBA loans dried up in the first stimulus package. We, we definitely lost out on that on our end. We were we submitted our application the second that the application opened up because we had done it the day before. So we were ready. But it appears, and I can't name any particular bank names because I'm not going to do that, but I do know that there are class action suits against some of the banks that shuffled the applications to favor the larger applications to process first just because they were so overwhelmed with all of them. But they also got commissions based on the size of the loans as opposed to you know, as opposed to the numbers of loans that they pushed through or whatever.
Sally Hendrick (14:40):
Whatever it is that they did. And unfortunately that meant that the smaller businesses who are the ones who have people who are having to close doors or live in their cars or do whatever it is, do something drastic to survive. Those are the businesses that were, you know, were victimized, if you will, in the banks reshuffling the applications. So this next package, I don't know all the details, I just remember the number was like $484 billion, I believe, the next package to go out to small businesses. Do you know if you're able to, with your Airbnb and with also your a DJ business together, will you be able to apply for payroll to be covered for each of you throughout whatever this ends up being? Because we don't really know.
Kimberly Edwards (15:44):
Yeah, I haven't looked into the details of the new package. Everything, everything that's come out, we've applied for it. We just haven't, we haven't gotten our stimulus money yet. I don't know if they're gonna run out of that. We, we didn't get the business loan either. And as far as I've seen so far, we don't qualify for unemployment. And within the state I keep on,
Sally Hendrick (16:07):
I can qualify for something. I would definitely talk to somebody because . Cause even as a self employed you will qualify for something. I don't know the specifics around it, but talk to like your banker or somebody you, you need or if you have an accountant or someone that you use for. Yeah. To definitely reach out and find out what you need to do. And then with this next package, get that application, make sure that it's still in line. I know that ours is still in line and so when the new package is fully released, then then we should be good to go on our end as long as they process it. Right. You know, so we'll see. So as far as the the rallies or the protest or whatever you want to call them that have happened, tell me when was the first one? Was that the, what's today? Sunday the 19th then of the 19th of April.
Kimberly Edwards (17:12):
Yeah. And this one was it was local. So we had one in Nashville, there was another in Chattanooga, there was one in Knoxville, Johnson city, Memphis, Jackson, Cookeville. I think those were all the cities that were a part of the free Tennessee movement. You know, the Facebook group went from 30 people to 7,000 people in about four days. Just grew real fast. Yeah, it was really fast and it's all volunteer based. And a lot of people, I just, I met within the first two days talking to them online and you know, building up trust and rapport through conversations much like, and and city leaders were kind of nominated. So like I've never been to Memphis, so we'd see like, yeah, you need year
Sally Hendrick (17:59):
Representatives all around.
Kimberly Edwards (18:01):
Exactly. So it was kind of cool to see these groups, you know, hundreds of people in, in Chattanooga and in Knoxville and in Johnson city and Cookeville just kind of pop up and show up together. And you know, we, we agreed on, we decided like this is nonpartisan. I don't like you can represent any party, I don't care. But this is nonpartisan. This is about our constitutional right to peaceably assemble our right to life and Liberty and our right to equal representation under the law. And as soon as you have somebody deemed non-essential, they are no longer equal and they can't pursue life and Liberty and no one can have the right to peaceably assemble under these executive orders. And so that was kind of what the, the rally was about was kind of protesting the executive orders that were taking away our constitutional rights.
Kimberly Edwards (18:54):
And we said, you know, we want everybody to be safe and we want everyone to feel comfortable. So I wasn't, I mean, of course I'm not going to mandate something that I don't want mandated on me. I wasn't gonna force people to be socially distant or wear masks, but I also wasn't going to allow people to be ridiculed or you know, discouraged from that. So we agreed. We wanted completely safe options. You could ride in your car and just beep your horn and be fully protected in your own vehicle. You could be down on the ground where a mask keeps six feet apart, advocate for yourself and definitely take the distance that you want. But then there were of course people who didn't want to do any of that and they've just wanted to be free and be out there with signs and we were welcoming them as well. So it was just, it was, it was you know, that that was how we were going to be peaceable was respecting one another's boundaries. And the rally that we have coming up on Monday, the 27th will be the same idea. Just we're asking everybody from the whole state to come to the state Capitol and protest it there.
Sally Hendrick (19:56):
Okay. And were there, was there anything else last week? Was it just on Sunday
Kimberly Edwards (20:02):
With free Tennessee? That is it. There have been other people who've like head up their own protests. I think there were about 50 people on the 20th on Monday. I've seen other people say that they just went out there and there was like a dozen people. So there's definitely people kind of continuing a protest throughout the week. But the free Tennessee movement has only scheduled two events so far.
Sally Hendrick (20:24):
Okay. Okay. All right. I think I might have been getting it confused with something else cause I saw other dates and I've, so I didn't really know what was going on. Okay. So the 19th was at the Capitol. That was the one I did go to that I walked up. I live right here near it. And so I walked over to watch and I saw all the cars and the beeping and the, and the flag waving in the waving and the hanging out of the car. I think every, I was like, these people really need something entertaining today cause I think that they're having fun right now. It was a lot of fun just to get out of the house. Right. so I do have a question though. What if something kicked up as a result of the protests? Because even though people are free to do what they want to do, if they're not socially distanced distancing and they're able to trace it back to something like that, like let's, I'm just assuming, let's say Mondays is going to be huge and that there's all these people and then they attribute a bigger outbreak to that.
Sally Hendrick (21:34):
What do you think about that? Does that concern you?
Kimberly Edwards (21:37):
I mean, I'd be sad if there was an outbreak attributed to anything. If you could trace it back to a grocery store or if you can trace it back to, you know, like no matter what, I think it's sad when, when people are, are sick and die from any of that. I think it depends on whether or not you agree that you're right assemble is essential.
Kimberly Edwards (21:55):
And you know, grocery shopping is essential so it can happen there. Well, I think my right to assemble is essential and that, and, and everybody who was there made that same agreement and and were willing to take that risk. And if it happens, is it sad? Absolutely. But I stand by that, that the right to assemble is essential. You know, our constitutional rights are essential.
Sally Hendrick (22:17):
Okay. Sounds good. So I wanted to explore a little bit about what we talked about before we actually started recording about the vaccine, potentially not the vaccine thing. I'm sorry about the actual COVID-19 starting sometime back in the fall and the speculation that there was that I've always thought that this started way before because I feel like it's kind of this rumbling that's going along and then it starts, you know, going up from there and, and so it's probably been festering, if you will whatever you want to call it for months. And then finally started showing itself and then us having the detectability with the test and so forth to be able to actually know what's happening. So what, what's your thought on that?
Kimberly Edwards (23:15):
Yeah, I definitely think it was here in the fall. And you know, the study in California is reassuring, the one that is showing that, yeah, it's been here since, what, September? I personally, I remember in, in the fall having this cough that would not go away. And I someone who, I love homeopathy, I do a lot of natural home remedies. So when things hit me and they last for that long, it's a little weird. But that was, that was like the worst symptom for me. But right after that one of my close friends just fell like deathly ill. She was out high fever. All of the symptoms at the end, she was coughing up blood. She went to the hospital twice. They had no idea what it was. She tested negative for the flu and they were like, we just like, we just don't know.
Kimberly Edwards (24:06):
You just, we just don't know what to what to tell you. And and, and a lot of our friends had very similar symptoms all around the same time frame. So for us, like it, it seems very reasonable and believable that it was here and that that's probably what that was. And yeah, it's not fun. I don't want anybody to have that was, no, no, I definitely don't want anybody to have it. But I also think wash your hands, stay home if you're sick, stay. Oh, you know, like I understand taking normal common sense hygiene type. Right? Right. So, right.
Sally Hendrick (24:44):
So what are you doing? I may not understand that you're in the middle of this free Tennessee movement and you know, you've got a part in the leadership of that and I know that you've got other people that are stepping up to help with that as well. But as far as your personal situation, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but are you thinking of anything else that you might be able to do right now to get through this? Because I mean, even we can protest and we can say that this is going to happen and we can argue about it and, you know, say whatever to the governor and do all these things. But at the end of the day, we don't really know what's going to happen from that perspective yet. And so it's, if you're stuck in it, what are you going to do next? Do you have any, you know, plans of switching course? Does your husband have any plans to change anything that he might be able to do to help your situation, your personal situation?
Kimberly Edwards (25:54):
Yeah, we, I mean that is, that is definitely the conversation on the table every day. Some ideas that we've had have been around, you know, we worked really hard to create this space for somebody else to live in so maybe we could rent it out like on a longterm basis for less money. And that would at least help to supplement some of the income. Of course depends on if there's a market for that or not, you know, I know that, you know, housing and rental prices will ebb and flow, so it's, it's an idea. It has to be the right amount for us to be able to stay in the house. Unfortunately another one, and I don't like this one is you know, other counties are opening up and are not having the same restrictions and my husband can go work there, but that means he's giving business to another County while Nashville suffers.
Kimberly Edwards (26:44):
And that makes us sad, especially when Mayor Cooper's wanting to hike the property taxes up 20% and for you know, like to know that like our city is going to be suffering even more than our neighboring city. But it's, it's something that we, we might be able to do. So those are just some of the ideas that we've thought of, but obviously until we know more about, you know, how this will play out in the effect that free Tennessee might have on the Mayor's decisions. We're trying not to, not to jump into anything rationally.
Sally Hendrick (27:21):
Right? Well, I mean yeah, as far as temporary situations go, you don't really know, is this going to be another month? It's going to be two weeks, it's going to be three months. How's it going to roll out? How are the, the other thing is how's the market going to respond? That's going to be the camp. Cause think about it. If somebody was getting married and the next couple of months and all of that's been canceled as a result of this, let's say it all comes online in a month, are they going to rebook yet? Who knows? You know, who knows? And, or are they gonna decide to do something altogether different?
Kimberly Edwards (28:06):
Do they have the money to do it at their location? Still available? Can their location keep up with all of the restrictions? Does that mean they have to cut their wedding party in half? Like so many questions?
Sally Hendrick (28:14):
Right, right. And then the whole Airbnb situation, there's a lot of those around here. So what happens with the competition of that and yeah, so yeah, there's a whole lot of things and I need to look into
Kimberly Edwards (28:29):
To it. I, I know that there are some COVID-19 restrictions if you're going to continue to operate your Airbnb that you have to adhere to. And because we live in the same house, I'm not sure if it's possible. It just like we, that just might be off the table.
Sally Hendrick (28:47):
Is yours a situation where they come in from a different entrance or.
Kimberly Edwards (28:51):
They come in from a different entrance, so we might be okay.
Sally Hendrick (28:55):
They share rooms. Do they share any rooms, like usage of any rooms with you?
Kimberly Edwards (29:02):
We share a driveway. That's it. So,
Sally Hendrick (29:04):
Oh God, maybe I would say that you would have more luck there than you would if it were a room in your house. Right. With the shared kitchen, a shared bathroom or anything like that. That right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Was there anything else that you would like to add before I ask my last question?
Kimberly Edwards (29:27):
Oh goodness. I can't think of anything. I'm just very, very grateful for an opportunity to get to talk it out and to say some of the things it feels really good. So thank you.
Sally Hendrick (29:37):
Well good, good. I'm glad. I feel for you. I feel for your, when we have our own situation, but it's not the same. It's definitely not. We have different types of businesses. I do run an online business and it's busy, but we do have a business that was mostly shut down if you will. So I get that. Totally get that and have an empathy for that and for you and personally. I did think of something. Yeah. What
Kimberly Edwards (30:08):
I that we didn't get to touch on that I think is important to talk about. And I think it's the mental health and the emotional health of, of what prolonged social distancing will do and the effects of that. And I think we've gotten to a place that it's really easy for us to look at physical health and say that that is its own thing. And then mental and emotional health is another thing. And they don't relate at all, but it's just not true. They really, they were like, and if we are, so we've been isolating for so long, right. And everybody is stressed. Whether you think you should be isolating or you think it should be over your stress. We're all feeling that and when we come back out, we will be exposed to the virus. It is going to happen. And those of us who are feeling at the very bottom of this level of stress, who've had no one to hug, no one to, to release that stress with no emotional connection with friends.
Kimberly Edwards (31:11):
In fact, a lot of division, if you disagree with any of your friends, right, and all of this hostility, your immune system is tanked. And if you're going to get exposed to the virus after all of that, guess what? It's probably going to be more severe than if you had gotten it two weeks earlier when you still had all of those resources that help to, to give you that holistic health. And if we are in this constant ebb and flow of unknown, I can work. I can't work. I'm essential. I'm not essential. I have to wear a mask. I can touch you. I can't touch you, all of this for the next year, it's going to be worse. It's like the virus is going to be worse because of that, you know, not. And then it might've been if we hadn't done that. So, and I, I, I think too, it's important to take into consideration the fact that, you know, suicide hotlines were, were getting hit over almost 900% increase and, and just what unemployment does to people in their, in their, in their hearts, you know, heart disease increases with that kind of thing. So just our health is going to completely tank with this and if we don't talk about that as well, then you know, we might as well say we don't care about them. And I don't think that that's true. I think we do care. We just have to find a way to actually show it.
Sally Hendrick (32:30):
Well, think about all of the people who have been laid off from jobs if they don't, and the unemployment we all know is not enough of compared to what we make right. Most of the time. So people can't continue to pay those healthcare premiums either. And so then they don't have healthcare insurance and then they get sick. Yeah. It just, it's, it's like this, it's this ball that keeps rolling and enrolling, enrolling, and then you've turned around on the other side and it's like, well, the virus is doing this and the community, you know, the, the money, the financial part is doing this and, and so it's all one big world tragedy, if you will. And I think we're all gonna suffer through some sort of traumatic response to that. Yeah. But through all that pain, through all of the things that we're having to go through, I do believe it's temporary. I don't know how temporary, but I believe it's temporary. What are your hopes at the end of it that maybe might, things might change in the world as a result? Is there anything that you're thinking of beyond.
Kimberly Edwards (33:46):
I think I would love to see people valuing
Kimberly Edwards (33:51):
Both their, their freedom and also making choices that are respectful of other people and mindful of how those choices affect one another. And I think that that goes on, whether, you know, on both sides of the, you know, shut down or not shut down, debate. I just, I just hope that we have a better, a better grasp of the unintended consequences of choices and that we really, you know, as a state, as a city, as a country, really take the time to think through those unintended consequences before we make decisions and that we, you know, that we spend time doing this kind of dialogue with one another, especially if we disagree. I think Benjamin Franklin said, you know, if everybody is thinking alike, then nobody's thinking. And I think it's really important that we, we think
Sally Hendrick (34:44):
It is important that we think and we think through all the options and all the perspective. It's very difficult to do that though is very difficult, especially to look from another angle that you've probably never been to before. It's really hard to see what's around the, around the corner on the other side. Well, I hope that everything goes forward. Well for you, I think that you'll find some things that will solve your personal issues, but I also commend you for pulling people together in that way. I hope that everybody does. I mean, from my personal standpoint, I hope everybody keeps their distance so that they're not spreading the virus around and we can get over this faster and and then everybody can go back to work and back to school and do all the things that we love to do. And whatever that new normal may be in which I would love for you to listen to the other episodes of the podcast is there's lots of different thoughts and ideas of how this world is going to change after all this. So, yeah. All right, well thank you Kimberly, and it's been nice talking to you today. Nice talking to you too. Thank you.
Sally Hendrick (36:01):
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